Comments on: Let Them Play? http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/ Read a college recruiting blog unlike any other, only at the National Collegiate Scouting Association. NCSA's blog is more than just college recruiting; it's also an athletic scholarships blog that's tailored to all high school athletes. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:09:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: GG http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2906 GG Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:22:28 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2906 I find it statistically unlikely that Cathedral Catholic in San Diego garners the number of championships it does without some sort of intervention (notwithstanding the divine intervention to which Cathedral, by definition, is clearly entitled.) Ultimately it all comes down to money. Its not fair; but really, what is? By the time they get to high school most kids are well aware of the disparity between the haves & the have nots. They take it in stride and do the best they can. Good for them. I find it statistically unlikely that Cathedral Catholic in San Diego garners the number of championships it does without some sort of intervention (notwithstanding the divine intervention to which Cathedral, by definition, is clearly entitled.) Ultimately it all comes down to money. Its not fair; but really, what is? By the time they get to high school most kids are well aware of the disparity between the haves & the have nots. They take it in stride and do the best they can. Good for them.

]]> By: Kody http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2572 Kody Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:54:09 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2572 When you go up against a private school they have an advantage everytime. They take your best players and beat you with them When you go up against a private school they have an advantage everytime. They take your best players and beat you with them

]]> By: PJ http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2331 PJ Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:57:28 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2331 Ron, I thought I was quite clear, but I'll walk you through it so you don't miss my position. My own children benefited from this unfair situation. I'm not about to harm the chances of my own kids to get what they want so that I can campaign for the greater good. The same has been true of every other parent that I know who finds the system unfair. They know if they speak up their kids will be punished for the transgression of the parents. The only missing information here is that there is an 800 lb gorilla in the room that everyone ignores because to point it out to the league officials would spell the end of the athletic career of the informant's children at that private school. If you have ever had kids in a private school you know the truth of which I speak. If you have never had kids in a private school you are just speculating. Ron,
I thought I was quite clear, but I’ll walk you through it so you don’t miss my position. My own children benefited from this unfair situation. I’m not about to harm the chances of my own kids to get what they want so that I can campaign for the greater good. The same has been true of every other parent that I know who finds the system unfair. They know if they speak up their kids will be punished for the transgression of the parents.
The only missing information here is that there is an 800 lb gorilla in the room that everyone ignores because to point it out to the league officials would spell the end of the athletic career of the informant’s children at that private school.
If you have ever had kids in a private school you know the truth of which I speak. If you have never had kids in a private school you are just speculating.

]]> By: Ron http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2321 Ron Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:14:17 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2321 I’m glad PJ responded so well. That is an excellent example of what sounds like a fact based and credible perpetuation of this non-issue. The validity test is simple though…just ask how can someone a) know so much detail, b) feel strong enough to post it, but c) never submit a complaint with the leagues mentioned. The answer is because it’s invalid / contrived. Plenty of well intentioned people speculate about limited facts that don’t seem to add up, but that doesn’t make their speculations correct. It usually reflects missing information. The term “scholarships” is repeated misused making it sound like these private high schools are D1 / D2 colleges. Scholarships are available at any reputable and established private schools based on academic merit and / or financial need. If there’s a question regarding whether a school improperly awarded a scholarship for an athlete, this is very easy for the respective league to verify. It’s one of the first places a league looks when they receive a complaint. I’m glad PJ responded so well. That is an excellent example of what sounds like a fact based and credible perpetuation of this non-issue. The validity test is simple though…just ask how can someone a) know so much detail, b) feel strong enough to post it, but c) never submit a complaint with the leagues mentioned. The answer is because it’s invalid / contrived. Plenty of well intentioned people speculate about limited facts that don’t seem to add up, but that doesn’t make their speculations correct. It usually reflects missing information.

The term “scholarships” is repeated misused making it sound like these private high schools are D1 / D2 colleges. Scholarships are available at any reputable and established private schools based on academic merit and / or financial need. If there’s a question regarding whether a school improperly awarded a scholarship for an athlete, this is very easy for the respective league to verify. It’s one of the first places a league looks when they receive a complaint.

]]> By: PJ http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2319 PJ Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:48:13 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2319 I miss typed the CCS playoff ratio. It is 5 to 3 in favor of the private schools. This outcome is not by accident, it is by design. I think it's great that some kids like the young man from Salinas who went to Riordan get a great education, better that they could have gotten at their public school. Just don't mix the two in league play. I miss typed the CCS playoff ratio. It is 5 to 3 in favor of the private schools. This outcome is not by accident, it is by design. I think it’s great that some kids like the young man from Salinas who went to Riordan get a great education, better that they could have gotten at their public school. Just don’t mix the two in league play.

]]> By: PJ http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2318 PJ Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:39:32 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2318 In response to your question and to the Menlo School comment let me say that it is completely unfair to have public schools compete against private schools. My children have been student athletes in both public and private schools. I have seen both sides of the issue and can say from personal observations that the private schools recruit athletes and then give them scholarships in order to attend. Private schools skim the top of the student athlete pool so that they rarely have the eligibility problems that the public school coaches have when grades come out and a key athelete gets benched because he/she didn't make grades. My kids have played in both WCAL and PAL in Northern California. WCAL draws and recruits the BEST student athletes and PAL must make do with those athletes that reside within the boundries of a particular high school. An example of this would be an athlete from Salinas,CA who suddenly ended up playing for a WCAL team in San Francisco. The coach with a twinkle in his eye claimed no knowledge of how that happened. This is not urban legend. The practice is so completely common here in the San Francisco Bay area and inspite of loud complaints from school district administrators down to coaches money talks and the private schools not only have the money, but they have the parents with pols in their pockets. Sacred Heart Prep in Atherton,CA, one of those private schools that competes against the public schools and goes undefeated costs $28K/year and awarded $4M in scholarships in 2008/9. Do your math. That's a lot of inducement. This week the Northern CA Central Coast Section Small School Football playoffs consists of eight schools. Five of those schools are private. Ratio of public to private schools in the Section is better than 4 to 1, but the playoffs show 5 to 4 in favor of the private schools. This outcome clearly supports what we all know is true. There is NO fairness that allows apples to compete against oranges. In response to your question and to the Menlo School comment let me say that it is completely unfair to have public schools compete against private schools. My children have been student athletes in both public and private schools. I have seen both sides of the issue and can say from personal observations that the private schools recruit athletes and then give them scholarships in order to attend. Private schools skim the top of the student athlete pool so that they rarely have the eligibility problems that the public school coaches have when grades come out and a key athelete gets benched because he/she didn’t make grades. My kids have played in both WCAL and PAL in Northern California. WCAL draws and recruits the BEST student athletes and PAL must make do with those athletes that reside within the boundries of a particular high school. An example of this would be an athlete from Salinas,CA who suddenly ended up playing for a WCAL team in San Francisco. The coach with a twinkle in his eye claimed no knowledge of how that happened. This is not urban legend. The practice is so completely common here in the San Francisco Bay area and inspite of loud complaints from school district administrators down to coaches money talks and the private schools not only have the money, but they have the parents with pols in their pockets.
Sacred Heart Prep in Atherton,CA, one of those private schools that competes against the public schools and goes undefeated costs $28K/year and awarded $4M in scholarships in 2008/9. Do your math. That’s a lot of inducement. This week the Northern CA Central Coast Section Small School Football playoffs consists of eight schools. Five of those schools are private. Ratio of public to private schools in the Section is better than 4 to 1, but the playoffs show 5 to 4 in favor of the private schools. This outcome clearly supports what we all know is true. There is NO fairness that allows apples to compete against oranges.

]]> By: Ron http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2317 Ron Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:33:34 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2317 The anti-competition posters have self-rationalized this into an urban legend that “public can’t compete with private because or private recruiting and scholarships.” It’s silly. Consider the obvious: A) Recruiting – Why wouldn’t a kid want to go to a school with a successful program? Couple this with the fact that no one wants to pays $15K+ per year for tuition. The conclusion is if you want kids to attend your public school, then improve the academics and build a good athletic program. If a public school can’t build a successful program with the 3,000+ kids they already have, then shame on the school and their coaches. Why would you subject your kids to that? B) Scholarships – This post topic began by talking about “the son's of Joe Montana, Will Smith, and Wayne Gretzky.” Does anyone really think they put their kids in Oaks Christian because they were offered scholarships? It’s a ridiculous notion. They have the means to put their kids wherever they want. I’m certainly envious but good for them. Some posters genuinely may not know that the various public AND private high school leagues already have very strict and specific rules prohibiting “inducements.” Forget the anecdotes and urban myths, if anyone has any actual examples of recruiting and / or inducement violations, then do everyone a favor and report it to the respective league. Leagues are required to investigate and the penalties are severe / appropriate (ex. forfeit of all past games where an effected player participated, revocation of past championships award, etc.). This said, I bet little or nothing gets reported, because 99.999% of this is urban legend. The anti-competition posters have self-rationalized this into an urban legend that “public can’t compete with private because or private recruiting and scholarships.” It’s silly. Consider the obvious:

A) Recruiting – Why wouldn’t a kid want to go to a school with a successful program? Couple this with the fact that no one wants to pays $15K+ per year for tuition. The conclusion is if you want kids to attend your public school, then improve the academics and build a good athletic program. If a public school can’t build a successful program with the 3,000+ kids they already have, then shame on the school and their coaches. Why would you subject your kids to that?
B) Scholarships – This post topic began by talking about “the son’s of Joe Montana, Will Smith, and Wayne Gretzky.” Does anyone really think they put their kids in Oaks Christian because they were offered scholarships? It’s a ridiculous notion. They have the means to put their kids wherever they want. I’m certainly envious but good for them.

Some posters genuinely may not know that the various public AND private high school leagues already have very strict and specific rules prohibiting “inducements.” Forget the anecdotes and urban myths, if anyone has any actual examples of recruiting and / or inducement violations, then do everyone a favor and report it to the respective league. Leagues are required to investigate and the penalties are severe / appropriate (ex. forfeit of all past games where an effected player participated, revocation of past championships award, etc.). This said, I bet little or nothing gets reported, because 99.999% of this is urban legend.

]]> By: Randy http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2314 Randy Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:27:25 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2314 The ability to recruit, and Oaks Christian does recruit heavily both through the school and through the parent organizations, gives the school a tremendous advantage. For example, Marc Tyler, now on scholarship at USC, attended Oaks Christian even though his residence was over 70 miles away from school. If Oaks moves to the Marmonte league you can bet that within a year, top athletes at other schools in that league will be recruited to Oaks. The ability of schools like Oaks Christian to pull in blue chip athletes, regardless of location, and the ability to use scholarships to raid area schools to create superstar teams, will let them cherry pick until they dominate the Marmonte League, and then we will hear that they need to move to another "more competitive" league. Leaving the schools in the Marmonte league behind. If Oaks Christian wants to be in a more competitve conference then they should seek to join a conference filled with schools that play by the same rules that they do. The ability to recruit, and Oaks Christian does recruit heavily both through the school and through the parent organizations, gives the school a tremendous advantage. For example, Marc Tyler, now on scholarship at USC, attended Oaks Christian even though his residence was over 70 miles away from school. If Oaks moves to the Marmonte league you can bet that within a year, top athletes at other schools in that league will be recruited to Oaks. The ability of schools like Oaks Christian to pull in blue chip athletes, regardless of location, and the ability to use scholarships to raid area schools to create superstar teams, will let them cherry pick until they dominate the Marmonte League, and then we will hear that they need to move to another “more competitive” league. Leaving the schools in the Marmonte league behind. If Oaks Christian wants to be in a more competitve conference then they should seek to join a conference filled with schools that play by the same rules that they do.

]]> By: O. Taylor http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2310 O. Taylor Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:01:30 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2310 Any athlete with character knows there is no glory in defeating an opponent on an unlevel playing field. Any athlete with character knows there is no glory in defeating an opponent on an unlevel playing field.

]]> By: Don http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2008/11/13/let-them-play/comment-page-1/#comment-2301 Don Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:11:25 +0000 http://blog.ncsasports.org/2008/11/13/let-them-play/#comment-2301 I agree with Dan H. Public schools will not allow a student to transfer into a distict just to play sports. (meaning no scholorship or recruiting) So private schools are allowed to play by their own recuting rules (scholorships) should play in the teh same rule based schools. I agree with Dan H. Public schools will not allow a student to transfer into a distict just to play sports. (meaning no scholorship or recruiting) So private schools are allowed to play by their own recuting rules (scholorships) should play in the teh same rule based schools.

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