"Recruiting Realities" with guest Jack Renkens (08-09-2005)
John:
Hello everyone, welcome to the only internet radio show talking about high school sports the business of college recruiting. Collegiate Athlete Today broadcasting live from Chicago Illinois, we're streaming live to in the US and across the world thanks to the World Wide Web. I'm John Kerr sitting along side me as he is every week, the pride and joy of North Chicago, Illinois, former Vanderbilt Commodore and founder of the National Collegiate Scouting Association, Chris Krause. How's it going CK.?
Chris:
JK, fantastic. We're on our third Red Bull right here and we're ready to get some education going right here. We're fired up about it.
John:
And considering our guest today, we're going to need it. We want to thank Voice America for streaming Collegiate Athlete Today and helping to steer this broadcast from the mother ship in Phoenix Arizona. Let's give out our email address, CAToday@ncsasports.org. Questions, comments, feedback on the show. Send them to us. All you internet savvy student athletes out there, listen up, your parents need to hear this show as much as you do. They may be a little leery about the idea of internet radio, tell them that all they need is a computer and a high speed connection and to go to www.voiceamerica.com and listen. For almost everyone listening today, back-to-school fever is in the air, expectations are high both on the field and in the classroom and everyone has a clean slate this time of year. Those expectations though can be a double edged sword and we are going to bring in a guy who knows just what we're talking about. He travels all over the country giving seminars on the reality of the collegiate recruiting process, he has been the key note speaking at 20 state athletic director conferences, he's the former coach at Assumption College in Massachusetts where he was also the Athletic Director, he's also a parent, we welcome Jack Renkens to Collegiate Athlete Today. Jack how you doing?
Jack:
I'm doing great you guys, it's fantastic to be here with you today. First of all I want to thank you for everything that you're doing for all the student athletes across the country by educating them about how this process works.
Chris:
Thanks so much Jack. We are super excited to have you on because there is a ton of information that parents need to know about this process. You've been doing this from being a college coach, being a high school coach and by being a parent. So going through this yourself and teaching people about this for so many years, what are the biggest mistakes that parents make while going through this process?
Jack:
Well Chris and John, when I travel around the country the first thing that I always notice with every parent is that they are just simply unrealistic. They say that their son has dreams of playing at Michigan, or USC, or Illinois, or North Carolina, just down the line and they don't realize that those expectations are really unrealistic. The actual mathematical statistic of kids who get a Division 1 athletic scholarship is less than 1 percent. And college coaches at the Division 2 and Division 3 and the junior college level I feel that parents don't realize the great opportunity that is available there but that these college coaches at those levels do not have massive recruiting budgets to track kids all over the United States. There are programs out there that would just die to have some of these kids but hear the name and say, well I've never heard of that college before so I don't want to go there. Well that is the perfect place for some of these kids because the bottom line is that this is about education and them getting their degree, not about kicking or hitting a ball, its about getting your education. And that really is a tough message to get across to families because the media has really made it all about Division 1 and kids are just infatuated with Division 1 and all the TV time that these schools get.
Chris:
Yeah, there's even a network now devoted to collegiate sports 24 hours a day. Collegiate Sports Television.
Jack:
Exactly. And kids need to realize that the opportunity out there is enormous if they know how to play the game, they just need to know what the rules are.
Chris:
Absolutely Jack, now you were a former athletic director and high school coach as well as a basketball coach at a Division 2 school. I have seen you speak and you talk about going through the Name Game and how kids are so obsessed with what games on what channels and what team is good over worrying about the library and their degree. What are your thoughts on that?
Jack:
Well here's an example, lets say a kid in California gets a letter from an interested coach at Emporia State in Kansas. Well most of the time the kid will throw away the letter and say I don't want to go to Kansas. But that's the perfect opportunity right there. They have you area of study, you will be able to play and the coach really wants you there. But they just throw that aside because it's not a big name school.
John:
Jack, what do you call that?
Jack:
I call that the Name Game. And I think if families took some time to research schools especially if they are contacted by the university, they can research it and find out that maybe that college that they never heard of is ranked the 17th best undergraduate college in America. It's a matter of researching and being educated on the possible opportunities out there.
Chris:
Absolutely. Jack, I know that schools like Ohio State will begin their initial recruiting process by sending out 10-12 thousand questionnaires to kids. And kids might think that are really being recruited when really they are just another name on a list. What would be some of your advice to figure out whether you're really being recruited by a school or whether you're just another name on a list?
Jack:
Well I feel that every family should get the NCAA Guide for the Student Athlete.
John:
And where can you get that Jay?
Jack:
Well, I don't have the number in front of me but you'll have it on your website. But when I go around for presentations I always ask the high school coach if they have a copy of that book. Most usually say no but a few say yes and then tell me that it's in the guidance department because that's where the NCAA sends the most critical piece of literature on college recruiting that there is. They send it to the guidance department and the high school coach and the athletic director never get it. And the reason it's so critical, it's not just about the Clearinghouse, and a lot of times when I'm out there and I say Clearinghouse people say, what's the Clearinghouse? The Clearinghouse is the initial college eligibility. If you have any intention of playing at a Division 1 or Division 2 NCAA level you need to be a member of the Clearinghouse. So I think its imperative that parents become familiar with this come the Freshman year of high school. But even more so critical are the contact dates that are listed in the NCAA guide. The NCAA I think has done a tremendous job with the chart that they put in the back of their brochure that gives you the phone contact and the mail contact dates for every sport. So for example, lets take football since we are heading into football season right now, if your son is a legitimate Division 1 full scholarship prospect at a major college across the country, if you do not get a phone call May 1st, May 2nd of your junior year of high school, that's your first indicator that you are not a legitimate candidate. And parents are always coming up to me confused because they get all this mail from schools but no phone calls.
John:
That's what you got, just a bunch of mail. We are going to have more with Jack when we come back from the break, it's hard to find a topic with more misconceptions than the recruiting process. More with Jack Renkens when we come back. You're listening to the Collegiate Athlete Today, more right after the break.
John:
Welcome back. You are listening to the Collegiate Athlete Today on the worldwide leader of internet talk radio, Voice America, you can reach us at CAToday@ncsasports.com. We are speaking with Jack Renkens today, a recruiting speak, he travels all over the country giving seminars on the recruiting process and basically debunking myths out there. And Jack, one thing before we had to go on the break there that we were going over that I want you to reiterate. Talk about that contact date that you were talking about before for football players.
Jack:
Well I was just mentioning that when they get a lot of correspondence from colleges all over the country, right away they get the wrong idea that they are going to be able to pick the school because they have heard from 30 schools. But my point is that the contact date for a sport like football, Division 1 Division 2, is May 1st of the Junior year, if you don't get a call around that time then that is your first indicator that no one is really serious about you at this time. It's not that the student athlete isn't good enough the problem ends up being that they are involved with the wrong schools. They are just dreaming. Now you get to all your other sports like cross country, wrestling, and baseball and all the rest, that contact date for all the other sports is March 1st of your junior year in high school. So if you don't get a call from your dream Division 1 school then well then that's an indicator to athletes of the rest of the sports that they aren't seriously interested in you. But that gives you time and the opportunity to realize that there are other opportunities at other schools that you should look into.
John:
And for parents and student athletes that are listening, if you want to get the guide that Jack is talking about, The NCAA Guide to the College Bound Student Athlete, you can go to www.ncsasports.org and get some information on how to order that. As well as go to the NCAA.org website.
Chris:
Alright Jack, as a collegiate coach, I believe that you have recruited kids from 48 different states and 5 foreign countries, you are obviously have a handle on how to find talent. What would you say would be the biggest way that college coaches find talent? And what are some of the myths that high school coaches and parents believe is the way that college coaches find talent?
Jack:
Well number one, I think that you need to realize that there are services out there and are available throughout the country where college coaches can purchase names, addresses, phone numbers and ratings on kids in virtually every sport. Obviously in the revenue producing sports like football and basketball it's a bigger deal with makes more difficult for the people who are not on revenue sports but I think its kids need to realize in these ratings that these kids have to be in the top 600 players in the world to make some of these lists. And a few weeks ago I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to speak at the Gatorade Chicago Bears training camp and in the parking lot a parent came up to me and said that their son was rated the 4th best quarterback in Illinois and he couldn't believe that Sothern Cal wasn't recruiting them. And I said what?! Southern Cal just signed the Number 1 and Number 2 quarterbacks in the entire United States. If your son or daughter is not ranked in the top 50 or 100 athletes in their sport, position or event, you have to get serious. But my second point is that there is a coach out there at another school that would crawl to sign your kid and would love for your kid to have interest in their program. And that's the message that I'm trying to convey.
John:
It seems that the hardest thing that parents don't understand is that they don't have the option to pick, right Jack?
Jack:
Well it's just amazing, I went through this with my daughter Brook. I would come home and see piles of unopened letters from colleges sitting on the table. And I would say, Brook you haven't even opened any of them and she would say, well I don't want to go to any of those schools dad. And I would say, that's the school that wants you. That's the school where you can play. And she would say, well I don't want to go there, I want to go to St. Johns or Boston College or Providence. And since I was in the business I would tell her that she wouldn't be able to play there and I told her that she had to get realistic, did she want to play or did she want to ride the bench? And that happens in every household across the country. But on the opposite side, I hear from kids who say that no one will recruit them because they aren't all-conference, or the best player on the team or they aren't all-area, and I think, how sad is that, there are schools out there that would love to have you play for them. Like I spoke at a school that had over 3,000 student athletes in three grades and I told parents that if their child starts on Varsity at a school this size, more than likely there is a school out there who would love to recruit them. I mean, just to start on varsity at a school that size makes you pretty good.
Chris:
Hey Jack, I was talking to a few coaches over at North Carolina and they were telling me some stories about parents who were unrealistic and they said that that can be a big road block in the recruiting process. Do you have any unrealistic parent stories to share?
Jack:
I cant tell you guys how many times, even at a small Divison 2 private school, that I had families visit campus and come into admissions office and id get a call that they are interesting in playing for me. They would meet with me and say that their son really wanted to play and that they felt that he would be a contributor and on and on. And I would say, well my boys are in the weight room lifting, lets take a walk over there and meet with them, I'd pick out one of my stud players and I'd say, Drew, why don't you come out into the gym and stand flat footed, you're 6'2, jumped up and reverse dunk for this young man. And that would happen and the dad would see it and go, holy smokes. Then we'd go back to the weight room and I'd say, why don't you throw 310 on there, Drew why don't you bench this three or four times. And I'd say, this is Division 2. This isn't Division 1, this is small time division 2, can your son do either one of those two things? And they would say no, so I would say if you want to walk on and give this a shot than go ahead but I'm not in a position to give you a scholarship at this point.
John:
If you want to see some old school run and gun basketball, that was Jack's style at Assumption College. But more with Jack after this break. Don't go away.
John:
Welcome back to Collegiate Athlete Today on the world wide radio brought to you by Voice America. I'm John Kerr along with Chris Krause. We have one more segment here with speaker, Jack Renkens who is the founder of Recruiting Realities and he travels all over the country giving speeches on the realities of the recruiting process. And Jack, I know you have a lot of information, you know a lot of stuff and you have a lot of educational material. Can you give a website for the listeners or a phone number? A website where people can go to get more of this Jack Smack.
Jack:
Well the first thing that I'd like to do, Chris, is I'd really like to thank my staff, I have a wonderful group of people who help me out and who take care of all the correspondence that we get. And if people want more information we have a brand new CD-ROM out, its interactive, it has video highlights on it plus a bonus guide book and plus the VIP rules for parents. They can call the 800 number with is 1-800-242-0165 or go to our website at www.recruitingrealities.com and they have highlights on there and video clips etc and they can get a lot of this education right from there.
Chris:
Jack, I have had the chance to preview it and it's a first class presentation, it's got information that is essential for anybody who is even thinking about playing at the next level. And Jack, you and your team have done a hell of a job putting that thing together. But back to putting a team together, one of the things that parents assume during the recruiting process, and we see this all the time, they assume that the high school coach is going to take care of a lot of things. What is the role of the coach in your opinion?
Jack:
Well, I get a kick out of this topic every night because the high school coach is the number one resource for the college coach, there's no question about it. I feel that any educator will do anything to help out their student athlete. And sooner or later, if things don't go right, the parents want to blame the high school coach and they say that the coach isn't doing anything to help them. And when I do my speeches I always go over to the high school coaches and I say, parents watch this. And I'll ask the coaches how many college coaches that they have a personal relationship around the country and most of the time these coaches say none. And I say that by putting your child's fate in the hands of the high school coach you will miss 95% of the opportunities out there. These coaches will help you after you make the initial effort or return a contact but they don't have the resources to recruit colleges for you. And who do you end up blaming, the high school coach because they only got you involved in 5% of the programs available. And it all goes back to the other subject of colleges not being in a position to scholarship athletes after a certain time. The opportunity across the United States is tremendous but parents have to realize that these college coaches do not have the budgets to find their kids.
Chris:
Hey Jack, we just got an internet question here, one parent wants to know about what recruiting services are out there. And what is the difference between recruiting services compared to scouting services. Well, most of the recruiting services across the country and they are popping up on the internet every day, it's unfortunate because there are a lot of unscrupulous organizations out there that go in and make false promises to families and so forth and take their money and nothing ever happens. But when I talk to college coaches, they pretty much are against recruiting organizations, but scouting organizations like the one you guys have I think is a service that college coaches do use. Especially at the Divison 2, Division 3, junior college level, that is just an incredible resource for them. And it's just a pity that a few bad seeds can ruin that reputation for everyone. High school coaches should really push for this so that they can get their kids names in front of the hundreds of schools that scouting organizations have a relationship with. For every hundred recruiters out there, there are 4 or 5 legitimate organizations out there so find the good ones and use them.
Chris:
Now Jack you're not doing any endorsing here, you are just saying that there are scouting organizations that are legitimate that should be considered as options if your child really wants to play.
Jack:
Well I think that's the bottom line. And I say that every night. Again, since I'm out this way, I would have to say that Florida and California are two of the hardest states to recruit from because schools from out of state don't think that kids from these two areas would want to play somewhere else.
Chris:
One thing about trying to go through the process is that there are parents who want to do it themselves. They put together clippings and write up hundreds of letters, they put videos together, what would you say on how those are received by college coaches? And do you have a recommendation for parents going at it alone?
Jack:
Well in most instances, all of this ends up happening the kid's junior year after the family get frustrated with the coach and the lack of attention. And they will market themselves, and I recommend that parents do this. But one thing I know is that parents love circles, lets pick 8 or 9 colleges within two hours of the house. And this doesn't give the child any opportunity to get recruited.
Chris:
Eliminate you options right away huh?
Jack:
Yes, eliminate your options right away. Let's stay within one or two hours of home. But they put newspapers clippings together, the make tapes, some of these tapes even have music on them! But college coaches want to see actual game footage, and I feel that most college coaches, not all, want to see a 4 or 5 minute clip. Legitimate up and down action of a game, not highlights. And now you have a lot of online video companies that offer the option of college coaches looking at an athlete instantaneously online.
Chris:
So you're saying that a coach is not going to look at the videos etc unless they are requested.
Jack:
Absolutely. A coach will not look at a video or anything unless they have requested that from your son or daughter. As I travel around the country talking and meeting coaches, I would say that the average Division 1 coach for any sport that you can think of are getting 10 to 50 mom and pop packets a week. And I don't think that most of these programs have people assigned to viewing the tapes. They will send a courtesy letter back because it's the right thing to do but in actuality no one really looked at the material.
John:
That's the music Jack, so we may be ending early enough for you to go out and play 9 before you talk tonight in Modesto.
Chris:
Yeah, hit 'em straight Jack.
John:
We want to thank Jack Renkens are guest. Tom Thayer and Profile Of Success, next, now don't go away.
John:
Welcome back, I'm John Kerr along with Chris Krause, you're listening to Collegiate Athlete Today on the world wide leader in internet talk radio, Voice America. You talk about information overload after talking to Jack. No one has the kind of passion that this guy has or the education and knowledge of this process quite like Jack Renkens.
Chris:
It's funny, we have families that we talk to daily and in 15 years of doing this and we have never had anyone come back to us and say that they started too early or that they had too much help in the process. And when families truly understand the whole process, I mean this is like going after a job because coaches start contacting athletes their freshman and sophomore years. And if you're savvy about the process and you can go on visits and meet with coaches and start to really narrow down your options as well as get ahead of the competition. You have to understand what the parent's role and very importantly what the student's role is in all of this. Just to know what questions to ask, are they just another kid on a list or is this school seriously interested?
John:
Like you said, you can never start too soon and never can get too much information. Freshman year. And this brings us to our Profiles Of Success segment with former offensive lineman Tom Thayer, member of the 1985 Super Bowl Champion Chicago Bears and currently a radio analyst on the Chicago Bears radio network. Each week Tom talks with a current or former athlete with a very unique story. And this week Tom profiles the former Auburn Tiger and WNBA star Ruthie Bolton. Here's Tom.
Tom:
Good afternoon everybody and welcome to Profiles Of Success. This is a very exciting guest because I think that as far as everybody we have had an opportunity to interview this person has put in more work to achieve success than anybody else. Ruthie Bolton from Auburn University, graduated in 1989, she now plays for the WNBA Sacramento Monarchs. Ruthie, thanks for coming on tonight and thanks for taking some time out of your busy schedule.
Ruthie:
Always a pleasure.
Tom:
Ruthie I read a lot about you, you come from a huge family and I come from a big family and I think that that is one of the greatest things that you can grow up with and with basketball, you have been in the limelight since a very young age. From the USA Women's National Team to the Olympic teams, did growing up in a big family help you to make the transition from team to team?
Ruthie:
Oh, no doubt. Definitely being a part of a large family has helped me in so many ways. Especially the whole idea of being part of a team because we were a team because my father raised us kind of like a team in that we each had our own responsibilities but we worked towards one common goal. And that's why I love playing basketball, it's the whole thing of being a part of a team because I like that everyone is different and has something different to offer and I like that. And I learned also about teamwork in the military too.
Tom:
You know, not many aspects of sports is glamorous. For example when you're in the gym by yourself working out there aren't a lot camera crews in there watching you but you say "I love working out not because of my job or what I do, I just love it." So is that what has really helped you become the athlete who is always on the cutting edge as far as being well conditioned when you do join a new team?
Ruthie:
Oh yeah, I love working out. And I don't do it for the cameras or just because I play basketball. I do it year round because I like to feel good and to me what working out does on the health side is secondary, I do it because of how it makes me feel and that's how I get my day going. I get up at 5:30 or 6am and hit the gym and I can workout completely by myself, I don't need a workout partner and I don't need a lot of motivation for me to get up because I have conditioned myself and I understand the importance. My major was in exercise physiology and wellness so I understand the importance of fitness so it doesn't take a lot to get me in the gym. Or a lot to eat right because I know that those things are going to help me and they have helped to contribute to me playing so long.
Tom:
You know I try to deliver that message to young kids whether they are in grade school, high school or going to college that when you do work out its not always in a team atmosphere. Sometimes you are going to go out in the middle of the afternoon and run 3 or 4 miles or be in the gym and do 5 sets of squats when no one is watching you. Do you also try to tell kids to work out on their own, not only when they are surrounded by their teammates?
Ruthie:
Yeah. I was part of a campaign about 3 years ago with the WNBA and we traveled around to different cities trying to instill in these kids the importance of trying to establish good habits now. People think that working out is not fun, and its not fun to a lot of people but teaching the kids how to make it fun will get them more excited about it. Even playing with your dog, skating or running around outside is exercise. Im actually a part of an organization now called Power Play where we are trying to teach kids about the importance of eating fruits and vegetables, at least 5 cups of vegetables a day because kids in California are in the top three states for obesity. So I just try to reach out to kids now because we are creatures of habits. So if you start now by the time you get older it will be like second nature. My dad always used to say that when you have your health and strength you're a millionaire and you don't even know it. And now I have come to understand what he is talking about.
Tom:
You know one of the most impressive things about you that I read in your bio is the fact that you take such a special interest in mentoring whether it be teammates or young kids. And it takes an extreme amount of confidence in yourself to mentor people on your same team. I know from my experience that I was scared to mentor a teammate who was drafted behind me because I was scared that he was going to take my position. But I think that that is one of the outstanding attributes about someone like yourself because you know that you fit in on your team, is that a fact?
Ruthie:
Oh yeah, one thing about me is that im confident about who I am and im not insecure about what someone else is going to do because I know that how my career has played out, I know that God had a lot to do with it. The footprints of my life have really been laid out because I could have gone down so many other paths. In fact at the Monarch tryouts, I knew that my chances of making the team were slim because coach told me that they were wanting to go with a younger team but I still encouraged the young girls who were trying to take my spot. I was hoping that their dreams came true too. But that's part of me, I love to mentor and encourage and I love trying to help shape young girls direction and their attitude and help to give them a foundation. And I know that what im doing is bigger than the game and that helps a lot and that helps me to be passionate about reaching out and giving back. And that's why I see coaching as another avenue for me because its an opportunity to really try to mold a young person's life.
Tom:
You know, Ruthie, I'm really glad that you brought up the word "attitude" because on the Super Bowl team that I played on, Mike Ditka had this saying and he referred to is as ACE. And that stands for Attitude, Character and Enthusiasm. In your bio that is a word that you use, in 1996 you were the only female on the US Olympic team who was not an All-American so you obviously had an attitude coming into the tryout that was an attitude of confidence. Not an attitude of arrogance but of confidence and that has to be an important part of making any team structure.
Ruthie:
To me what has really laid the foundation and given me my identity was really the challenge of colleges not recruiting me. And I almost didn't play basketball because my father said that he wanted me to go to college and that if I didn't want to play basketball I didn't have to. After all these colleges denied me he told me that he believed in me. He said that you may not be as talented as your sister but they don't know what you have on the inside. He said that I had a great attitude and a great drive so Auburn took a chance on me and they said that I wouldn't even play until my junior year. So I went into Auburn knowing that I really had to exceed expectations so I had to go in and make every moment count. I couldn't wait. And after just two or three weeks of practice, my coach was actually using me as a standard for all the conditioning drills and that helped to pave the way and help with my work ethic. And from then on, the rest is history. We went to 2 final fours and 2 NCAA Championships and that is why I push the positive attitude so much because I know that that is the only reason that I was able to prevail. Turning the negative into a positive is how I was able to beat the odds.
Tom:
Ruthie you are the exact reason why we have the feature, Profiles Of Success, because of what you have accomplished and what you are going to accomplish in the future. And the way you help and mentor the younger people behind you. Thank you so much for taking out some time this afternoon to talk with us. I can't thank you enough. This is Tom Thayer with Profiles Of Success with Ruthie Bolton from the Sacramento Monarchs. Thank you very much Ruthie.
Ruthie:
Thank you for giving me this opportunity.
John:
Thanks Tom. Thank Ruthie. Man, woman, boy, girl, everyone can find inspiration in an athlete like Ruthie Bolton. What a life.
Chris:
No short cuts. Your attitude will determine you altitude. Ruthie Bolton exemplifies what attitude can do for you. I was fortunate enough to meet Ruthie at a talk that she did with the Willie White Foundation, Willie was a 5-time Olympian and she came out to give a talk to all the top female athletes in Chicago. People don't realize this, but Ruthie is one of eleven children and she only had one scholarship offer and Auburn didn't even send her an offer until they took her older sister. So she had overcome some adversity, got a full ride basically on a favor and took advantage and went on to become an All-American but a two-time Olympic gold medalist.
John:
Incredible. This show is all about attitude. We want to thank Ruthie Bolton and Jack Renkens and the mother ship out in Phoenix Arizona. For Chris and John, we'll talk to you next week.