"ACT/SAT Prep" with guest Annette Riffle, Kaplan Test Prep (09/27/2005)
Chris:
Hello everyone. Welcome to the only internet radio show talking about high school sports and the business of college recruiting. Collegiate Athlete Today. We are broadcasting live from Chicago, Illinois and streaming across the US thanks to the World Wide Web, I'm Kerr. And sitting next to me and extremely fired up, is the pride and joy of North Chicago, Illinois and former Vanderbilt Commodore, Chris Krause. Before we get to our guest today we want to remind you that CAToday is available through Pod cast at Itunes.com. Ok so this week we are going to switch gears a little bit away from sports and we are going to talk academics. And more specifically, academic testing because high school and college kids are the most tested kids around. Whether it's a midterm or an exam to get into a college, there is a lot of testing. When we look at sports, the winners are usually the guys who out practice the others but that same focus and preparation needs to be applied to academics as well. So today we have Annette Riffle, who is the National Director for Tutoring Programs for Kaplan's Test Prep Division.
Chris:
Annette, one of things that people don't take into account when they talk about scouting and going on to play at the next level is really what it takes in the classroom and that's what we really want to focus on today. There have been so many athletic casualties who are out searching for jobs because they never got the education because they didn't get it done in the classroom. Another thing that they didn't realize was what they had to get done with the NCAA Clearinghouse which sets the tone for that student-athletes have to do in the classroom to make sure that they are on pace to graduate. Annette, tell me a little bit about the Kaplan services and what you guys do and how you got involved with Kaplan.
Annette:
At Kaplan what we do is we help students to achieve their academic goals through test preparation and also through admissions consulting. So we focus with student primarily with two tests, the SAT and the ACT. You guys mentioned that you have to put as much effort into that science test as you do towards the game coming up this weekend and with the standardized tests that are necessary to get into college, the good news is that there are no surprises. Students know about them years in advance, you know that they are coming up and there is a lot that students can do to prepare for them and that's where Kaplan comes in.
Chris:
Unfortunately some students take these SAT and ACT tests just like they would any old math test and that's after an all nighter. And that usually doesn't work very well. Through my experience we see kids gearing up for their play on the field but a lot of times there isn't any gearing up for these standardized tests. Having a good GPA is one thing, but it has to be complimented with a good ACT or SAT score. Can you share with us the difference between the SAT and the ACT, a lot of people wonder what the differences are.
Annette:
Absolutely, that's a great question and one that a lot of students have. There are a few differences between the two exams that students should be aware of when they are looking at which test they want to take. The first difference is the length of the exam, the SAT as most people know has just changed and they added a new section this past March and it's now a fairly long test and for a lot of students it will be the longest test of their test taking career. It stands just under 4 hours, at 3 hours and 45 minutes. The ACT is a little bit shorter then that coming in at just under 3 hours. And test taking endurance is a big part of the process. Another difference between the two is the content involved. With the SAT, there are three major sections, math skill, critical reading and there is a focus on writing skills. And with the ACT there is also a science reasoning section and a little more difficult math section. Another important difference is a Wrong Answer penalty, so on the SAT if a student gets an answer wrong they are going to deduct a few points while on the ACT that doesn't happen.
Chris:
So on the ACT you want to fill in all those little circles that you can before the end of the hour.
Annette:
Absolutely, if you see the clock ticking down, you know what to do.
John:
We talked a little bit about the myths involved with the ACT and the SAT and one of those out there is that schools weigh one test over the other. You hear a lot that the East coast schools take the SAT more and the West coast schools take the ACT. Is there any truth to that?
Annette:
An important thing for students to know is that nearly all schools take both exams and they are not going to look at your application differently if you chose one exam over the other. Now it is important for kids to double check but now nearly all schools accept both. So it's a matter of personal preference as to which one you will perform better at. And the best way to find that out is to take a practice version of both.
Chris:
That makes great sense. One of the questions that I was going to ask you in terms of trying to decide which exam to take, with the SAT being more math and verbal and the ACT having more science, if I am strong is the sciences, would I be more likely to do better at the ACT? Or would it not make a difference.
(9:05)
Annette:
It really is going to depend on the student. With the changes that we just made to the SAT, the two tests are more similar than ever before. While the ACT does have that science section there still are similarities that make them both comparable. And that is why I recommend that students go ahead and take that practice exam and sit down with an expert and determine which is going to be the better environment for you.
Chris:
In term of when to take it, I have heard of 7th and 8th graders taking the ACT and getting outrageous scores. Is there any truth as to how early you should start taking these exams? Because obvious there is a set curriculum that kids wont get to until a certain point. What is your opinion on that?
Annette:
That's a great question and with all the buzz about these exams a lot of students want to try to get this over with as soon as possible. But actually here at Kaplan we recommend that students wait to take these exams until the Spring of their Junior year. That's a time when you have been able to take a lot of the courses, like algebra, geometry, a few years of high school English, science and if possible if you can do the prep in advance and get the scores that you like going into your senior year, that is a good position to be in.
John:
We are talking academics and test preparations with Annette Riffle of Kaplan. When we come back we are going to talk about a survey that Kaplan did that we think will really shed some light on this whole testing process. So when we come back we are talking more about academic preparation. Don't go away.
(14:35)
John:
Welcome back to Collegiate Athlete Today. We are back with Annette Riffle the national director of tutoring programs for Kaplan's test prep division and Annette, Chris and I were doing some research and we noticed that you guys did a survey about the new SAT. And you wanted to get a feel for how the kids felt about the new SAT test, you interviewed almost 2000 testers and 39 different testing sites and they thought that the essay took a little too much time and the test took a bit too long. What was your reaction to that survey? Were you surprised at all about their response?
Annette:
We weren't exactly surprised because we expected a lot of the things that the students would be feeling about the new test. But one of the interesting things that we learned about the survey is that a lot of the students were surprised about what they saw on test day. For example, 50% of students let us know that they ran out of time on that timed essay. And students went into the section thinking that the math section would have been the hardest part but when they came out they let us know that the critical reading was the hardest section.
Chris:
It seems like every year they are adjusting these tests. I know that with the NCAA and the Clearinghouse there are 14 core courses that kids have to take, but as of 2008 there are going to be 16. The landscape of college recruiting is changing so much. Can you tell me a little bit about what you guys do as far as tracking the progress as far as staying on top of all of these test taking changes.
Annette:
Well Kaplan has been at this for a long time. We invented the test preparation business and we have been around for close to 70 years and so we really have a lot of information as far as changes that are happening with the test makers themselves. And we do our best to get that information in college admission changes out to the students as best as possible through our website at www.kaptest.com or students can call us to find out more information as well at 1-800-kap-test. We know the test makers well, we speak with college admissions experts and we are constantly in touch with guidance counselors to find out whats on students minds.
Chris:
I have had the pleasure of visiting with a few people from Kaplan and I know that there are a lot of strategies going into this. A lot of people think that if they just go in there and study hard and hope to just do your best they will do fine. Can you share with us some of the principles of taking these tests so that kids can better train to take this important test that is going to determine their future. Some of these kids go in so unprepared and this is one of the biggest and most important tests in what determines their futures. What are some of the strategies? How do you recommend that kids prepare for this?
(18:40)
Annette:
If I could answer with one word, that word would be "practice." There is not a lot a kid can do other than that to prepare for this exam. It's a lot like training for a marathon. You mentioned before about cramming the night before a test and that's just something that is not going to help you on tests like the SAT and the ACT. They have been designed to resist those types of approaches. The types of questions that they ask on these tests are not the types of questions that you'll see in math or English class. So kids need to learn a different way of looking at those base skills and they need to look at a combination of learning the content, practicing vocabulary but also need to learn the test itself and how those questions are going to be set up for them. So that they can understand how to set up that test day process and prepare for it. Practice always builds confidence but it also builds skill.
Chris:
I know a lot of students enter a test day like an athlete enters a game day. Is there anything that you would recommend a student athlete to do on test day? Anything that could help them to prepare and get mentally ready?
(20:10)
Annette:
One of the things that we do focus on during our Kaplan courses is helping students with strategies for that test day. One thing that is important for students to know is that if they have done their homework and done the practice tests they don't need to study the night before the test. That's a good time to decompress, maybe go out to a movie with your friends. But don't try to do that cramming because at that point your brain is holding all of the information that you need. Just like on game day, it's important to keep that focus and resist speaking to other students in the breaks between test sections. It will just make you more nervous. You know that you have prepared and are ready so just focus on the exam.
John:
I'm not a good test taker. And a lot of student athletes are psyched out about certain subjects. On your website here you have someone called the Ms. Math Diva with a quote from a Jimmy Buffet song about hating math. So how much of test taking and preparing these kids for the exam is the psychology of taking the exam?
Annette:
You mentioned the math and one good thing to know is that the content does not change. You know going into the exam after the prep classes that the content and what is covered will not change. Experts like Kaplan know what kind of content will be on the exam and they can help you with that. We will talk about how to approach a problem if you don't necessarily want to jump right into the math. We can help them with strategies there, like working backwards, you can use the answer choices to eliminate your options. And as I mentioned before, on the SAT there is a penalty for choosing the wrong answer. A fraction of a point is taken off for each question you get wrong, but if students know that then they can use that to their advantage and answer strategically throughout the test to put their score in a better position.
Chris:
Annette, when you are studying for an SAT, would the same rules apply for the ACT or do you have a different strategy for both?
Annette:
A lot of the same rules do apply. Like into the zone on test day and making sure that you take time to relax the night before still apply. One thing that Kaplan recommends is that students take their Ipod with them so that they can just listen to music and block out the distractions during breaks. But there are important differences and that wrong answer penalty is one of them.
John:
Yeah, I believe that it's a combination of both the mental part of it and also understanding the concepts which is good thing for the students listening right now as well as the parents. But before we wrap up here, I know that Kaplan does more than just test preparation don't they? Can you tell the audience out there a little bit more about what you guys do and where they can get some more information.
Annette:
Most people have heard about Kaplan because of our test preparation. And the classroom courses that we offer but we understand that this entire process of college admissions is a complicated one and it can be confusing for a lot of people and that's why we also offer admissions consulting. And this is for students who just want someone to take them through the process, answer their questions, help them determine which colleges are the best ones to apply to, help them look at their personal statements and talk about the possibility of interviews at colleges which some colleges recommend. Also those different stages of the process are things that Kaplan Test Prep Admissions can assist with.
John:
Great stuff, again it's www.kaptest.com and also www.kaplan.com as well.
Chris:
Now have you ever had anyone start preparation too early for the SAT or the ACT, Annette?
Annette:
There is no such thing.
John:
When we come back, we are going to put this topic specifically more in the direction of athletes. More when we come back.
(28:55)
John:
Welcome back to Collegiate Athlete Today, we are kind of switching gears a little bit this week. More of the academic side and test ready side with Annette Riffle from Kaplan. We want to thank her for being here. But this last segment here, we want to change gears back to the student-athlete again. This is for the parents and the people who know of a student athlete out there who is getting read to start the recruiting process. The email address is CAToday@ncsasports.org and Chris every year the NCAA comes out with "The College Bound Guide for the Student Athlete" that our friend Jack Renkens says is the most important piece of literature on college recruiting. It kind of lays out the dos and donts for high school kids who want to go to the next level but there are a couple of key points that we want to make for the audience from that book.
Chris:
Yes, not much changes in the book from year to year, however in 2008 they are changing the core requirements for graduating. And the new APR rating that tracks the success rate of the student-athletes in college is causing some changes. And it tracks to see how many student athletes are actually getting their degrees from DI and DII schools and holding schools accountable for their progress. And that's one of the main reasons why these core courses and core requirements are really coming into play. You have the 14 core classes that when people ask when recruiting starts when you walk in as a freshman because if you aren't even taking your core English classes, well you need four years of that and you need two more years of Math, including algebra etc. You have to make sure that you take these 14, soon to be 16 core courses. Because if you don't take them and you fly through high school and you have a scholarship offer sitting on the table and yanked from you because you didn't do the work up front. I have seen it happen every year, these kids say, oh I'll go take it in summer school and they don't and then their once in a lifetime opportunity is gone.
(31:20)
John:
Yeah and that's a casualty that you hear about every single year when people don't prepare and they don't understand what the rules are. And of course you can't go back once you find out too late. Chris lets consider a question from our e-mail back here. We've got Dave from Orland Park, Illinois who has a great question that is specific to what we are talking about today. The test score requirements for the SAT and the ACT for the admission requirements to any university, are those requirements different for athletes as opposed to non-athletes? And also he asks what is this Clearinghouse that we've been talking about.
Chris:
Well the NCAA Clearinghouse is really the people from ACT, and the NCAA sends the information to the people at the ACT and they create a complete database of student-athletes who have registered their information to make sure that they have taken the right courses to prevent them from just getting by. The reality is that the Clearinghouse is a set of criteria that they set up to make sure that the kids that colleges are going to award scholarships to at the DI level and DII have taken the minimum amount of courses and they have tested well to make sure that they have a better likelihood of graduating from school. You have a sliding scale that takes you from a 3.55 GPA and a 37 composite ACT score all the way down to if you have a 2.0 GPA and a 1010 SAT or a 21 ACT. So with that sliding scale they tried to make it so even if you aren't a good test taker if you're getting it done in the classroom it will give you a little bit of leeway. So if you have a higher GPA you can half a little lower test score and still get in.
John:
So going back to Annette, understanding what these rules are, like the sliding scale and knowing that by 2008 those core requirements are going up. So sophomores now are going to have more requirements upon graduating than seniors now. So if you are not a good test taker go to Kaplan.com and find someone in your area that can assist you with these tests.
Chris:
I mean that's just it, so many of these kids are going to all these clinics to improve their speed or the vertical jumps but it doesn't do you any good if you don't have the academic side covered. And that's why we wanted to take a little time out with this segment and really let people know that even if they want to go to a NAIA school or a NCAA DI school, you are going to need your 14 core courses and soon it will be 16 in 2008. Go to NCAA.com and there is a worksheet on there that can help you to track yourself and make sure that you're meeting all the requirements. Because a lot of schools, particularly in the inner city are not in line with the NCAA, the minimum GPA is lower or the core classes are less so these kids would have to take a higher level of courses than their classmates.
John:
Yeah that 40 yard dash wont mean much if that GPA or that SAT isn't where it needs to be. And one more thing before we wrap up this segment, Chris. Division III schools are a little bit different, correct?
Chris:
Absolutely, in Division III there are no minimum GPA's or SAT's however most of the DIII are really based on academics. They are really concentrated and some of the best schools in the world are DIII so you will probably need a higher GPA and higher tests scores for those schools than you would for DI. So if you have a 2.0 GPA and are really struggling well you may want to look at a junior college first. And another thing, if you're struggling with testing, go get tested, there are a lot of kids with learning disabilities out there that go undiagnosed every year.
John:
When we come back here, Profiles of Success with Tom Thayer is next.
(41:30)
John:
Once again, welcome back. Before we get to Tom Thayer and Profiles of Success, we were switching gears here today by talking about the academic side. But that's as valuable a lesson than anything out there.
Chris:
Yeah John, when it comes down to wanting to play, the rule is that if you don't have the academics, the grades, the tests, you just don't go on and play in college. And too many kids every year concentrate on their sport only and they forget about the other end with is the academic side. If you can't hold a 2.5 GPA in high school, who are you going to get through college? You won't make it through college, and that is the bottom line. No coach wants to waste a scholarship or coaching time on a kid who won't make it through college.
John:
Well said Chris, and this brings us to our Profiles of Success segment with former Notre Dame and NFL offensive lineman Tom Thayer, member of the 1985 Super Bowl Champion Chicago Bears and currently the radio analyst for the Bears. Each week Tom talks to a former or current athlete with a very unique story and this week Tom profiles former Chicago Bear kicker and current Illinois Supreme Court justice, Bob Thomas. Here is Tom.
(43:55)
Tom:
Welcome everybody to another segment of Profiles of Success. And they get bigger and better every time. He is a 1974 graduate of the University of Notre Dame, an 1981 Law degree out of Loyola University School of Law but most people know you because you were a kicker with the Chicago Bears from 1975 to 1984. Bob Thomas, Judge Bob Thomas, it seems like in your life, "be prepared" is the best statement that explain your accomplishments thus far.
Bob:
Yeah. And when you mention 1975 through 1984 with the Bears, I can remember where this all started, I went to Jim Finks the General Manager at the time and asked him if he had any problem with me going to Law School. He said not at all, and would suggest us kickers to have a distraction so that we wouldn't think to much going into an important kick. And as a kicker and the competition every year I knew that I was going to have to go on and do something else in life so I do thank him for the opportunity.
Tom:
As much as we are into sports here I think that our main desire is for everyone to get an education. How did you maintain the desire to put the work into your education given the profession that you are in?
Bob:
Well I had always thought about law school, I was a Government major at Notre Dame and talked about law school quite a bit. I played 3 years in the NFL before I even began law school. And having a general manager like Jim Finks was a blessing because I hate to say it, but I waited on law school because I got caught up in the NFL and was enjoying being a kicker for the Chicago Bears. But my brother attended Loyola and he was 3 years behind me at Notre Dame and he said that the Dean wanted to talk to me about perhaps going to law school after he kept reading about that being my plan in the paper. And talking to him spurred me onto the career path that I had been talking so long about doing.
Tom:
It seems like most lives of professional athletes quiet down after their career is over while yours is just picking up steam. What do you think prepared you for that and your desire to continue your education?
Bob:
Well as you know, we played during a time that with the paychecks we received we knew that we were going to have to have a second career at something. It wasn't like we were going to live off of the interest off of our money when you are only making 27,000 a year in the National Football League. So I think that people in football at that time may have been a little more focused on second careers. I was practicing law even while I was still kicking for the Bears and it didn't take me long to realize that I wanted to go into the judiciary, it's a great job being that your job description is to be fair. And I have been blessed. I think that initially I was aided in becoming a circuit judge and a trial judge out here in DuPage County by the fact that I did play for the Bears and had some name recognition. Likewise I was aided by being a former professional athlete who had been on the front page of the paper for winning or losing games, I never took myself too seriously and I think that's a problem that judges run into. They look at the robes as being robes of power as opposed to robes of responsibility but I had already learned those hard lessons of humility. And again I have been blessed. I became a circuit judge in 88, an elected appellate justice in 94 and in 2000 I was elected to the Supreme Court and this September I'll be Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. So its hard to believe how your life can take a turn but it certainly did.
(48:15)
Tom:
You know confidence to walk into a room is a big issue and I think that every boy and every girl getting ready to play a sport for the first time, walking into that locker room is kind of a humbling experience because you don't have a lot of confidence. It seems like confidence is something that you have to learn, and being a kicker in the NFL there is probably no position that takes more ribbing when they first walk into a locker room. How did you earn the confidence to walk in knowing or at least thinking that you belonged there.
Bob:
You hit it on the head there, Tom by saying that you have to earn the respect. Especially when you are not in a position where you are beating your head in every day and putting your body at risk every day at practice you have to recognize that that is a little humbling in itself. You are in a world of people where pretty much everyone else on the team is putting a lot more on the line physically than you are. And I tried to meet that fact with humor and over the course of time you're successful and you spend 10 years with one organization and people respect you and then all of a sudden these guys who poked fun at you are coming up to you and saying I wouldn't want your job on Sundays. So either it's the course of time or you really have to be a certain personality type to really coexist. And I think that's the reason that a number of kickers don't last in that world because they don't have the personality to get along with their teammates and it gets into their heads and effects their kicking.
Tom:
The next question that I want to ask you, and I have always wanted to ask you this but haven't because it's a touchy question, you perfected your craft of kicking for years. And you were with the bears for 10 years and in 1985 you got cut and then the Bears go on to win the Super Bowl. You have to take a difficult time in your life and create a positive out of that with your next career venture. What did you learn from your first bad experience of getting cut that helped you to become a better professional?
Bob:
Yeah that was very difficult and my most difficult moment as a Chicago Bear because I knew after 10 years that I wasn't coming back to the Bears. I had had my best year in 1984 and was ranked among the top kickers in the NFL and I was never more convinced about making a team than I was going into the 85 season. But they had drafted Kevin Butler that year but I was fortunate enough to be the first kicker picked up by another team, I was picked up by the San Diego Chargers in 85 and I played for them the whole season. But to tell you the truth I had my feet on the turf in San Diego but my eye was on the scoreboard watching the Bears roll over opponent after opponent. And my bitterness, the unfairness, the resentment welled up in me and I got to the point where actually my faith in God is what preserved me during that period and helped me to realize that focusing on the negative was impacting me in a bad way. I realized that I should be focusing on the blessings of playing in Chicago for 10 years, the friendships that I made and I realized that that was the most important part of the game. And we do grow from our disappointments. And I can remember going to play for the Giants in 1986 and tearing up my ankle before the first game and going on injured reserve and in 86 the Giants went on to win the Super Bowl. So I missed out on two Super Bowls in 2 years when I was the starting kicker for the Giants that year going into the first game. And I think that had all of those things not happened I would not have had the opportunities to run for judge when I did and go into law when I did so I think that God really had a plan for us. And if we realize that than we wont waste so much time wallowing in disappointment.
Tom:
I think that's what a lot people need to realized. I was cut too. And people need to realize that at some point everyone is going to be cut and parents need to learn to accept it and have positive remarks for the kids. And they need to see it as another opportunity.
Bob:
That is such an important lesson. We started out talking about academics and I think that a lot of parents think their kid is going to go on to play football in the NFL and the odds are astronomical against that, but they sometimes convey the wrong messages as to what is actually important. And there aren't many people who go out on their own terms and even the ones who do, still have to go out. Jack Nicholas one of the greatest golfers of all time walked across the bridge and it was all over. So everyone is over at some point its just a matter of when and how you look at it.
Tom:
Bob, this is why we had you on Profiles of Success. I think the main quote for you is "be prepared." You are an inspiration to everyone who has the chance to listen you to today.
Chris:
Thanks Tom, we want to thank Bob Thomas as well. High school athlete, ready to take your game to the next level? Go to www.ncsasports.org and fill out a student evaluation form.