"How to pay for college without going broke" with guest Tim Austin (08-23-2005)
John:
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So today, Chris and I are going to mix it up a little bit because this is back to school week. Where most high schools and colleges are beginning classes and college kids are just moving into their dorms, apartments or frat houses. If you're a high school junior you're probably thinking about what schools you want to apply to. But if you're a high school senior, you are probably beginning to send your applications in right about now. And if you're a parent of any of these kids you mind is probably cluttered with things other than directions of this weekend's party. And the reason for that because housing, books, food, travel expenses and all those trips to Costco cost money. And more than likely the parents are the ones paying for it. So we are going to bring in a guy who makes a living by showing parents how to pay for all of this. He played some college tennis in his day and at one point had a world ranking. But for 12 years he specialized in college funding, he is the president of the National Association of College Funding Advisors in Detroit, Michigan, he is also the president of National College Funding and the author of "How to pay for college without going broke." Very snappy title. We welcome Tim Austin to Collegiate Athlete Today. Tim, how ya doing?
Tim:
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.
Chris:
It's great to have you on. We get questions all the time from concerned parents about how are you they going to pay for college. Because of that simple fact that 99% of kids that are going to college are not getting that fully funded Division 1 scholarship which includes food, board, books and tuition. So we thought that it would be helpful to parents if we brought an expert on board to help to answer those very crucial questions. So what gave that idea to start NACFA? What gave you that idea?
Tim:
Well it all goes back to my college years, and that was about 21 years ago when I was dealing with the same issues. I thought that I had something special going on as far as the athletics side was concerned and also just my family setting. I come from a lower middle class family, my dad was a pipe fitter and my mom basically stayed home and raise about 209 kids. And Chris, now that's something that you never knew about me. My parents were actually foster parents so at any given time we had anywhere from 2 to 4 babies in our house at one time. So there really wasn't much money in our household and I have two brothers, an adopted brother and one sister. So one, I thought that through my athletic ability I would be able to obtain some college money from the schools that I wanted to go to but when I started looking that just simply was not the case. And the schools thought that they were giving me a really good offer, but it wasn't that good when my parents were only able to give me at most 1500 bucks so nothing less than a full ride was really what I needed. So because of that, I went ahead and stopped playing tennis even though I had a world ranking, I stopped playing after my freshman year. I filled out all the FAFSA forms that they counselors told me to and filled out all the forms to get as much money as I could from the government and was basically told that I didn't qualify for anything based on the information that I had given them. So from that moment on I worked my butt off and I was able to pay for the first two years and then through an introduction from my uncle I was able to meet a CPA who was able to help me put it all together. He was a financial planner and I was shown how I could get more aid and what aspects I was completely missing out on as far as financial aid was concerned. I was able to get $6000/year for the last two years of college and this was 20 years ago, and I wouldn't have gotten that without having someone there to tell me what to look for. So literally I have been helping people with financial college planning ever since.
(6:40)
Chris:
So in essence, you were your first client almost?
Tim:
I really was, absolutely.
Chris:
So you're telling me that you didn't have a lot of tennis coaches and scouts knocking down your door with that world ranking?
Tim:
Well, yeah. They were.
Chris:
But that is one thing that we have found out about the non-revenue sports. That they don't have the resources to get out there and they don't have the funding and school backing to offer a lot of perks to their athletes. So what kind of advice did you get from your coaches? Did your coaches just kind of assume that you'd be getting some sort of tennis scholarship?
Tim:
Yeah, most all of the coaches were really surprised that I didn't get more help from college programs. And I would be offered a few thousand from this school and a few from that school and my coaches would say, that's great, that's almost half of the cost of tuition. But I was thinking that if I was going to keep up that kind of ranking that it might be a lot harder if I had to come up with the other half of that money. I was at the gym 7 days a week and on the court at 4:30am every single day. The only time that I would take a day off would be to cut practices from twice a day to once a day about once a week. So if I was going to keep that kind of practice schedule up, there would be no way that I could work and earn money to pay the rest of the balance. And back then there was no instruction on loan management or interest free loans that I could have qualified for but no one really showed me how to go about getting those. So I basically felt that I was backed into a corner and that the only way that I was going to get through college was that I was going to have to do it myself so that's pretty much what I did. I quit tennis and I took the bartending job and the waiting tables job and lived on three hours sleep and worked my way through it. But people just don't understand. There are a lot of misconceptions out there with coaches, with teachers, with principals and parents with thinking that kids are going to get this full ride to college. And it really goes beyond just athletic ability, there are parents out there who have the 4.3 GPA student, the child with the 36 ACT, the top SAT's, great extra curricular work, and they end up going off to college with a financial package that covers only half of college costs. So there is a lot of misconceptions out there about what is actually happening.
Chris:
But from what you were saying though, is that for your last two years of college, you were able to get over $6000 per year which in essence was basically a full scholarship for you almost at Wayne State.
Tim:
It sure was Chris. It sure was. And for me it was all learning how to navigate the system. Learning how to fill out all of the forms, getting things filed on time, do them right, and how to put myself in the best position possible to have the college award me the most money possible.
John:
And thing is that at Wayne State, this was an in-state school for you. Correct?
Tim:
Correct that was in-state.
John:
When we come back from the break we are going to talk about some of the misconceptions out there. How to educate families on how all of this works. And we'll even explain to people what a FAFSA is. And we are going to talk about all of this with Tim. A guy who has actually filled it out and now does it for a living. We are going to talk to Tim about all of this when we come back. More with Tim Austin on CA Today when we come back.
(14:00)
John:
Welcome back. We are switching gears a bit this week to a topic that may not be the most athletic but just as important. We are talking with Tim Austin, president of the Nation Association of College Funding Advisors, an expert at showing families how to pay for college without going broke. Which is, ironically, the title of his book.
Chris:
Tim, you have a world ranking, you are coming into college and you have to settle for more of a walk-on scenario. And you end up getting your college almost fully funded for the last two year. So for the first two years what happened? Why didn't you get your college funded for the first few years?
Tim:
Well believe it or not, Chris, it's actually pretty embarrassing because in hindsight, for one, I had filled out the financial aid forms wrong. For one I used black ink instead of a #2 pencil. FAFSA stands Free Application for Financial Student Aid. Chris, it really is the main form that every student, whether their parents make no money at all or a million dollars a year, they should fill it out. Because by not filling it out you are saying that you absolutely want no option for financial aid. And the parents may be saying no to grants scholarships, interest free loans that that student could actually get awarded from a college without them even being aware of it. And this money is awarded in some situations whether they show a need for it or not. And it all starts with this FAFSA form, and when I got the form back, which is called a Student Aid report, we call it a SAR report, which is the report that comes back from the Dept of Education after you fill out a FAFSA form. And on my form it said that "you do not qualify for aid based on the information obtained on the form." They didn't say, hey silly you didn't follow the directions properly, you were supposed to do this in a #2 pencil so therefore you need to redo it. They don't say that, they don't tell you those types of things and in fact, Chris, the statistics show that almost 55% of the people that should be filling out the FAFSA form, don't fill it out. So that's one problem. And then the next problem is that the other 45% of the people who are filling the form are out, well get this one. The Dept of Education statistics says that almost 90% of those people are doing it wrong.
Chris:
Which means what, Tim?
Tim:
It basically means that out of all of the people that are out there that could qualify for moneys, and I'm talking about grants scholarships from the federal government, the state government and the college itself; 90% of them are basically passing up on money because they are not following up on the system properly. And another problem is that they are not being educated on the system properly.
Chris:
So you mean that too many people are using the black ink instead of the pencil huh?
Tim:
Yeah, too many people using the black ink. But Chris, I find it amazing every single year when I ask a high school counselor if they can tell one of their students what his/her EFC is and they cant. An EFC is the estimated family contribution towards a student's education. And this is a number that every parent should know. The day that a child is born they should have some calculation of this if they are going to do proper financial planning. But if a high school counselor doesn't even know that the reason they are filling out a FAFSA form is to be awarded an EFC by the Government, well then that's just simply not a well informed high school counselor. But the bottom line is that it's not the high school counselor's job to be informed about financial aid. They are trying to keep the kids out of trouble, keep them in the right classes, get them prepped for college, they aren't trained in regards to financial aid.
Chris:
Well that's what we find too, we deal with thousands of kids every year, Tim, who are looking at how to pay for college. And since most kids aren't getting that fully funded scholarship, they are getting partial scholarships so the next part of that is to find a way to take care of the rest through this FAFSA process. A lot of families, because they got some information from a family friend or a neighbor or an uncle think that they won't qualify because they make too much money or they don't try because maybe last year they didn't qualify. And mind you this changes every year, doesn't it Tim?
Tim:
It sure does Chris. Every single year, it's just like filling out your taxes, because you never pay the same amount in taxes every year so every single year when you fill out that FAFSA form things will change year to year too. One year you could qualify for a certain amount of money and the next year you could qualify for more. It really depends on the situation of each individual family. I kind of put them all into one of three categories; Category 1 means that you will get need based financial aid at every single school that your child is looking to go off to. A Category 2 at some of the schools you will get aid and the Category 3 situation, you will not get the need-based aid. The Category 3 situation would be someone whose parents are really making that high income, $500,000 or above type salaries. But the other interesting part is that even in a Category 3 situation, even by filling out a FAFSA you are putting yourself in a position for a college to still offer you money based on the fact that they really want you to go to their school. But if you don't fill out that form and raise you hand and say that if you are willing to give me some money I'll take it and attend you're school, well then you'll never be offered it.
John:
Tim, quick question, just for the families and students out there listening. Where do you fill out the FAFSA? Can you do it online? Can you educate the people on when you fill it out, where you fill it out and how the whole process works.
Tim:
Sure. The FAFSA form is just that, it's a free application. There are two ways to do this. One, you can call the Dept of Education at 1-800-4FED-AID and they are somewhat helpful at getting you the information you need, the dates when you need to fill it out, the best time to fill it out and how to go about processing the form. You can also do the exact same thing online at www.us.financialaid and those are the two ways. You can also plug in for FAFSA at FAFSA.gov to access the form also. But here is a problem that a lot of people miss about the FAFSA, you cannot fill out a FAFSA form until January 1st of the child's senior year and then there are priority dates for every state. So everyone has to wait until January 1st to fill it out. For example, in Michigan the priority date is Feb. 15th, well lets look at that, if only 5% of people are actually filling it out right, well the number of people filling it out by any given priority date is probably ridiculously low. And the problem with that priority date is that people don't recognize it as a priority. They think, well I don't have my taxes done yet so how can I fill out this form when its asking for my income and my assets. Well you can estimate, most people don't realize that you can estimate the numbers. Just come close. And then you can go back later on and actually correct them. So make sure that you're getting the first priority date. January 1 of the senior year.
Chris:
Just from hearing parents go through this, we are finding out that since most people don't do their taxes all that early and most people do wait to do the FAFSA until they do their taxes. How does the lateness of filling out a FAFSA effect the way the government offers them money?
Tim:
Well being late is just something that you don't want to do. Because if you think about the thousands of applications that are sent into a financial aid officer, and we are talking thousands, the aid starts on a first come first serve basis. And there is only a limited amount of money. If you pack a 10,000 square foot building with cash and everyone starting January 1st can walk through and grab two handfuls of cash and walk out, well it's not an endless supply. That financial aid officer can only give so much of that money to so many of those applicants. So it's a very obvious question where you want to be on that person's desk.
Chris:
You want to be first in line to get that cash.
Tim:
Absolutely.
John:
And that's free money. Grants and aid that you don't have to pay back right?
Tim:
Absolutely.
John:
More with Tim Austin on the other side of the break here. We are going to test more of Tim's financial IQ and go over more of this when we come back. Collegiate Athlete Today with Chris and John. Don't go away.
(25:15)
John:
Welcome back, John Kerr here along with Chris Krause and we are visiting with Tim Austin and our email address is CAToday@ncsasports.org.
Chris.
Tim, we have a couple of e-mails that just came in here. And some people have a couple of questions for you. From Wilmington Delware they ask, when would be a good time to get started with this process?
Tim:
Well, that's a great great question, Chris. And really quickly, I want to correct myself on that website, I left a part out on the FAFSA.gov website. It's actually FAFSA.ed.gov. So back to the question, I had always joked on waiting so long to get married so that I could get a 10 year start on saving for my kids' college education. But really when you look at it realistically as far as the savings aspect of it, you were certainly want to start the day our children are born. If not before they are born and put a plan together. But now as our children are older and in high school and we may only have a couple of years, we have very limited opportunities for saving money and we have to make sure that we are really taking advantage of all the avenues of help that we can. Contrary to popular belief, most colleges really do want to help as many kids as they can. But again, there are limited sources. So the system is not set up very good, it can be very confusing. The end of the sophomore year and the beginning of the junior year, that year is the best year to start getting all of your ducks in a row in order to qualify and to start getting information together to fill that FAFSA form out Jan 1st of their senior year. And the reason for that, Chris, is that all of the information that you're putting on the FAFSA form looks back one year. So everything that you're doing during the end of the junior year and the beginning of the senior year is going to show up on that FAFSA form. But there is some talk in regards to the FAFSA form that they may start looking back two years in regards to your financial status. So that would make it, basically, the end of the freshman year and the beginning of the sophomore year to get your finances together so that it matches up with the FAFSA form. The other problem with that and the reason that I started NACFA which is the National Association of College Funding Advisors, is that most financial planners and CPAs are uneducated in regards to the FAFSA process and the Dept of Education process. And people are asking their financial planners and CPAs for advice and they end up getting inappropriate advice in regards to where they should be putting their money and where they should be saving their money.
(32:50)
Chris:
Tim I have had a couple people ask me about what they should do with their money, where to put it and that sort of thing. Some of these student athletes have money that they have earned or maybe it was a gift from grandparents and the like, what are some techniques maybe in terms of repositioning of assets to really make sure that you get what you deserve?
Tim:
That's a great question. Because there is no question that assets in the student's name is going to effect the FAFSA form. For example, if a student's grandparents have been giving them those savings bonds since the day they were born or if mom and dad have been putting 50 dollars a month into that mutual fund, let's say that that has accumulated to 20,000 dollars. Well that is going to go against them in the FAFSA process which is going to access an EFC at 35% well that's 7,000 dollars, Chris. That's $7,000 that that financial officer is going to pull away that another student that didn't have that savings will end up getting over you. So really you got penalized for saving that money. I could be making $100,000 a year, you could be making $100,000 a year, but because I saved some money for my kids and I only went on one vacation a year and you drive a Cadillac and go on three vacations a year, now I'm going to get penalized that $7,000 because I saved that money. So one of the strategies here is to take a look at the money, how it was invested and there are a couple of things that you can do before you fill out the FAFSA form. At the end of the sophomore year and the beginning of the junior year, is that you can spend that 20,000 dollars on the child and then redirect that amount into mom and dad's name. Money in mom and dad's name goes against them only at, well theres a formula for it, but it goes against them at about 5.8%. So 5.8% is a lot better than 35% and certainly 0% would be better. So there are certain places, such as annuities and cash value life insurance where the money would be sheltered from the FAFSA form from the EFC formula because the Dept of Education does not count those types of investments as an asset. But it really depends on everyone's individual situation because I would never want to make a blanket statements of everyone go spend your money or put it in an annuity.
Chris:
We here about kids all the time who go to expensive schools for really cheap. Like I knew a girl who went to Harvard for 2500 dollars a year or someone else who got 32,000 to go to the University of Chicago. Some families have shared with me some techniques about how it's negotiable. So is there a tactic to negotiate going to college?
Tim:
Yeah, there really is. And the first thing is to understand that most schools will negotiate if you have a reason to negotiate. You don't want to just go in there yelling about how you can't afford it can you please give me some money. My uncle is the head financial officer at the University of Detroit-Mercy here in Michigan which is a private school right around that $34,000 mark. And one of the things that my uncle is always looking for with a student is that when he gives an initial awards package it's not always locked in stone, and one thing he looks for is initiative in the student. Through a personal appointment the student can let the financial aid officer know that they are a human being, that they are interested in receiving funds and maybe mom and dad even if they look like they can afford it really can't. And that gives the financial aid officer the opportunity to turn around and say maybe we'll give them a little bit more. And I my uncle's situation, he will automatically make it a larger grant for a student if they call up and make a personal appointment.
Chris:
Hey Tim we are going to have to cut this short because we have Dave Collins coming up next. But this is so much valuable information for parents and students to know. Tim Austin with NAFCA, email your questions to CAToday@ncsasports.com. And we'll make sure that you get them answered appropriately. Tim it's been a pleasure having you on.
John:
Tim we appreciate it. Tom Thayer on Profiles of Success, next on the Collegiate Athlete Today.
(40:50)
John:
John Kerr here along side Chris Krause and I'm kind of in awe of the informational segment that we just had with Tim Austin. It's hard to put into words the value of that information that we heard here with Tim. You know something, for anyone emailing us, and we told you about a prize at the beginning of the show. The winner is going to get a copy of Tim's book. "How to Pay For College Without Going Broke." Make sure to leave your contact information in the email. That brings us to our Profiles in Success, segment with form Notre Dame offensive lineman, Tom Thayer, member of the 85 Super Bowl Champion Chicago Bears. Each week Tom talks with a former athlete or a current athlete with a unique story. And this week, Dave Collins.
Chris:
How do we do better than that JK, one of the top 50 NBA players of all time coming on with Tom Thayer. Two time world champion and a nine time All-Star, Dave Collins, the big red head. Tom Thayer take it away.
Tom:
Welcome everybody to Profiles In Success. I can't say enough about our next guest and how honored I am to have him on. Dave Cowlins, 2 NBA championship teams, one of the 50 greatest all-time players, NBA hall of fame, 7 time All-star and now the head coach of the new WNBA franchise team in Chicago. Dave your bio is too long to read because it would take up all our time here. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Dave:
Hey Tom, my pleasure, how are things going with you?
Tom:
Doing good. Just excited to have an opportunity to talk to you because the message that we are trying to get across to young athletes trying to pursue sports is that they belong even if the odds are stacked against them. And in reading your bio, you're only 6'9, you're a lefty but now you're playing center in the NBA, you averaged 18 points and 14 rebounds per game, are you more proud of the points or the rebounds?
Dave:
Well, if you had watched me growing up you would never imagine that I would have averaged 18 points per game, in a professional game. But my whole ticket to success was trying to be a good teammate, go for the rebounds and play with a lot of energy. I just went out and had fun and sort of the skill of the game came to me a little bit later when I stopped growing and had to develop some sort of an offense.
Tom:
When you talk to your own team, are rebounds a way of showing hustle on the court?
Dave:
Well, to me, it's about the whole entire attitude. It's good for players to practice with a selfish sort of mind in order to get as good as they possibly can as an individual in all the various aspects of the game. But my whole motivation in practicing and lifting weights on my own and doing all the extra things that the coaches had nothing to do with was because I never wanted a coach to have a reason to take me out of the game. So if it were a situation when a coach needed you to make free throws, well I didn't want him not to be able to depend on me. If were going to press or run a good set play at the end, I wanted to be the one in the game. That was my motivation, but once you are able to develop your own skills then the challenge is how to incorporate all that into the team game and how can you be the best teammate that you can possibly be.
Tom:
Well when you talk about a team game, it seems that every successful person that I have talked to, their bio has contained the term Work Ethic. Do you bring this with you? Or can that be coached into an athlete?
Dave:
Motivation to me is a little bit overdone. You can be inspired by people but I think that motivation comes from within. You have an athletic background yourself, Tom, and you understand what it takes. There's a lot of pain involved in training and pain is what separates us all in terms of how far we are going to push ourselves. Some people like pain, I don't mind it and I think it's part of the process of growing and getting better. So you have to be able to push yourself so that you can get through the body fatigue, the mental distress and the want to loaf around. There is a weeding out process form high school to college and from college to the pros and I think the reason for that is loss in dedication due to the pain of trying to move to the next level.
Tom:
When I read your bio, one of the 50 best players in the NBA, and there's a quote out of your bio that says, "I never thought of myself as a superstar," but yet you achieved a Hall of Fame career. So as a coach, what is your approach to a player who thinks they are a superstar but haven't yet achieved that status?
Dave:
You know, this whole paying attention to the hype and trying to get people to believe something, to me, well, the proof is always in the pudding. Everyone has fundamentals to work with, and you need to be able to master those fundamentals and it all shows up in how you play. So to me, a player is only has good as the next game that they're playing and what they are going to go out there and prove. I would have never played if I had paid attention to my opponents talk about how good they are on the playground and such. Who cares, just go out and play and see what happens. So I don't pay too much attention to the hype and if a player comes in talking stuff and thinking he's better than he really is well I just say, lets go through the fundamentals and see how you do, lets look at the tape and get real about it.
Tom:
You know I think that's advisable at every level. Having brothers and nephews who coach or play at the high school level, I see that sometimes kids watch these professional athletes and think that they are going to be the next superstar. And sometimes they are in high school but you have to be able to make them work, and they have to prove that they are in fact a superstar. And again, reading your bio, your freshman year at Newport Catholic High School, you quit the basketball team because of a conflict with a coach.
Dave:
I wasn't having any fun. It wasn't about the coach. I didn't care about the coach, I just wasn't having any fun. And when you're a kid, sports is just about playing and having a good time and getting the chance to rough house and exercise and all that. It's a chance to express yourself because you have a lot of things going on as a young person. Difficulties in school, in relationships and you're trying to find yourself and sports is one of those things where you can put all your frustrations behind you and just let loose. So I know that there have been a lot of players who have been frustrated by coaches who didn't know what they were doing, didn't have the right attitude, didn't allow the kids to just have fun and go out and play and I think that a lot of times that turns kids off to sports. There's a really good book written by Bob Bigelow called "Just Let The Kids Play" and every parent, every coach and ever kid should read this. Especially the adults because the adults are the ones who screw it up most of the time. These kids should just be able to play, 7th grade, 8th grade, freshman, they should just be able to go out there and the release alone would motivate these kids to keep playing. And all these strategies and such that coaches bring at this age can really confuse these kids and take the passion away.
Tom:
You probably learned one of the most important lessons about sports at a young age, that it's not always fun. When you are trying to compete in a sport, at any level, high school, college or pro. Sports is not always fun.
Dave:
Sports instills a lot of discipline and I certainly needed that as a young person and everybody does. You have to know parameters and you have to know that there are consequences for actions and I believe that that should really stay in sports and the game itself because there are rules that when enforced teach you about consequences. I mean, yeah, it's hard, there's hard work and there are rules but you still need to be able to have a good time while you're playing. That's what it's all about and later on when the stakes get a little bit higher and more people are coming to watch you play, you get a scholarship to play in college, then things get a little bit more serious.
Tom:
Throughout your career and I have seen this at a lot of different levels, when you played against guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and you're a 6'9 center, how did you find the confidence to play against these guys?
Dave:
Well the confidence comes from doing the work. You don't just automatically say I'm confident. I used to get really nervous before games and really freak myself out but I realized that that was only just working against me in terms of how I was producing on the floor. It was wearing me out, it was stressing me out. So I used to sleep and meditate before games and just not worry about it. I had my routine, I would stretch, warm-up, study the game plan because a lot of sports is in your mind. And it's how you approach the game. Are you going to worry and be negative or are you just going to go out there and put your practice and hard work to use. Relish the competition and don't be afraid of losing because we all have to lose sometime. The first time I saw Wilt Chamberlain was when I was walking into center to jump ball against him. And I thought, wow this is a big guy he is one of the greatest players to play the game and I respect that guy. But he hasn't played against me and he doesn't know what im all about. So I just said, lets see how good you are. And that was my approach to the game. You play with dignity and you know that the game is bigger than anybody in it and youre happy to be doing it.
Tom:
Dave, let me thank you so much for joining us today and I think that your advice could help every young aspiring athlete listening today. And your advice could help any parent listening to inspire that confidence in their children. Thank you so much.
Dave:
Did that all make sense to you Tom?
Tom:
Oh yeah, and one of the most important messages that we are trying to get across to parents and kids is that it's not always going to be easy. You have to earn a spot to belong and hard work and your work ethic is what are going to get you your next opportunity. And that is why we appreciate you being with us today.
Dave:
Yeah keeping it real is the big thing, because we tend to live in a fantasy world and we think that everything is going to come quickly. Because there are no guarantees. Because I spent hours in the gym before I ever even thought that I could get a scholarship to college, I just wanted to push myself to be the best without expectation. And since there are no guarantees you have to enjoy doing the work. So if you really love the game that you're trying to play than try to make it a passion that you want to be the best that you can possibly be. The extra things come later.
Tom:
And that is the exact message that we are trying to get out across the country. Dave thank you so much.
John:
Thanks Tom, great stuff from Dave Cowlins. We want to thank our guest Tim Austin for joining us and again you can email us at CAToday@ncsasports.org for a free copy of Tim's book.